Curse

Cryptic Quote · Jun 06, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade

...actually Cryptic, the #1 pve problem for assassins is that they were balanced to death by Anet. We were given weaker armor to not upset rangers, but our spike damage is nerfed to not anger elementalists... On top of all of this, the Canthan AI is amazing (compared to the Prophecies AI that was crap)... To top it all off, many assassins are inexperienced with the use of their shadow stepping skills to save themselves... They heal for a reason people, they aren't there to get you to the fight faster than the whammo.

Valid Point, but on the AI note, one thing the AI is programmed to do IS to go after either squishy targets, or targets with high DP. When an assassin rushes in and draws all the aggro, they get in trouble 70% of the time(rough est). So by having nuke skillz in PvE to scramble the other mobs besides your main target turns into a serious advantage for an assassin... And as far as the balance issue, yes they were balanced into the game, just like every other class, one of the key factors of this game is the fact you HAVE to play your role to be 100% effective... An assassin taking way to many hits = an assassin not doing their job... don't blame ANet, the assassins are fun, but extremly complex to play, hence they are like a mesmer, not for everyone, but in the right hands can be an EXTREMLY valuable asset to alot of different builds. And as far as healing goes w/shadow steps, yes they heal for a reason, but its for more then just survival, if you drop your target w/assassins promise, all your skillz = recharged, and hrm, deaths charge heals u as u teleport to your next target, a good sin isn't taking alot of damage, and that heal sets you up to murder your next target, part of the reason assassins are failing right now so miserably is because people arn't thinking outside of the box with them... they are thinking straight forward, do damage do damage do damage. An assassin is more of a disabling/ambush fighter, you have to really go in with a gameplan in order for them to work... and alot of the assassin's skillz are DESIGNED WITH THE INTENTION OF MULTIPUL PLAYSTYLES... They arn't a straight forward melee character, and any1 who tells you that is lying... Why else would they have spells, hex's, attack combo's, enchantments, and shadowsteps? They are ment to be diverse, and over time people will realize what they are ment to do... untill then sadly alot of people wont credit ANet, who in my opinion did a good job w/making the assassin a VERY sacry oppenent... or a very valuable ally... I'm out!

damkel · Jun 06, 2006, 09:02 PM // 21:02

^^Great post. Thanks dude.

fezpenguino · Jun 07, 2006, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Hmmm, it's a very interesting build. I like the basic concept. I like to be able to heal better, so I will work around this idea. I like the Asp idea for knockdown, with bed of coals. Since my main area at current is Fort Aspenwood I need self-heals to keep myself going for any length of time, so I'll work around the Asp idea and the BoC idea to make something worthy in that area.

Main problem with some of the build mentioned:
Meteor just takes too long to cast and also too much mana cost involved! Assassins are for quick-damage dealing, and that idea just doesn't seem to work properly or well, at least not for me. Perhaps in a PvE environment I can see it working better.

Cryptic Quote · Jun 07, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by fezpenguino

Hmmm, it's a very interesting build. I like the basic concept. I like to be able to heal better, so I will work around this idea. I like the Asp idea for knockdown, with bed of coals. Since my main area at current is Fort Aspenwood I need self-heals to keep myself going for any length of time, so I'll work around the Asp idea and the BoC idea to make something worthy in that area.

Main problem with some of the build mentioned:
Meteor just takes too long to cast and also too much mana cost involved! Assassins are for quick-damage dealing, and that idea just doesn't seem to work properly or well, at least not for me. Perhaps in a PvE environment I can see it working better.

Actually, you missed the key point on meteor, when you teleport out to your allie, you CRIPPLE your foe, who was lying down, now, by this time the are starting there animation to get back up, so that should last about a second, now they are gimping away very slowly, and there is also a good chance that they tried to cast a quick heal then walk away to try and negate some of the damage they just took, when all of the sudden, out of the sky comes the big meteor, TANG 100 spike+fire+another second in BoC. Return is a KEY port for the concept i was going for, I chose mobility over self healing (not that self healing is a bad thing, but not taking damage in the first place is HIGHLY preferred in my mind). Get in and out and AVOID damage whilst doing as much as I can myself. (Also even if they get out, and then try to self heal, there is a good chance you can intterupt there heal w/meteor

)

PS - How is 5 nrg too much? your gaining back 3 nrg every critical, and i critical with my build about 50 percent of my hits!

dilapodated · Jun 07, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

A few things to think about....

One, Horns of the ox is very situational. All it takes is one person to be nearby and the knockdown doesn't go off. With that being your only knockdown it's a bit risky that you won't get your full combo off.

Two, A single enchantment removal renders your build useless Cryptic as GPS requires you to be enchanted.

Three, One word, Aegis, the good ol' Prot monk best friend. If your opponent blocks a single hit, you fail. What makes it worse, GPS now has a longer recharge than before. You miss, you're waiting 20 seconds before you can try again.

Four, Blinding flash,throw dirt, blackout, migrane.. Just a few other "No, your tricks won't work here" that your character has no counter for.

Five, Shield of judgement, now it's you doing the falling.

Six, Spell breaker.. Look mom, my spells didn't go off.

Seven, Bonetti's defense, a VERY common skill for monks to carry. Again, your combo fails.

It's a fun build idea, but unfortunately it's FAR to situational to be considered pvp material. It needs A LOT of work before it's considered fight ready. Keep working on it.

My advice, switch over to skills that cannot be blocked or evaded. Deadly arts has dancing daggers and entangling asp, neither of which can be blocked, evaded, effected by blind, nor will they trigger shield of judgement, but they will still be countered by spell breaker.

Stryker Wild · Jun 22, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

To the poster right above...

That's the number one problem with assassins, 95% of their attacks are situational.

Combos are always failing because of misses, and with low energy and some skills with high recharge rates, there's nothing you can do once you miss and ruin your entire combo.

If you're playing as an assassin, you gotta live with that.

As for something like Spell Breaker, an Assassin is not going to be the first target for it, and hopefully by the time you start pulling off your combos and the enemy realizes what you're doing, you'll have him killed.

You can always add another enchantment skill/spell to your mix to make them have to remove two enchantments in order to do any damage.

All I'm trying to say is an Assassin is a very win/lose no-grey type of character. It's either gonna work wonders and kill them fast, or its going to be countered easily.

I also like leaving out the no-healing situation, especially in RA. If you're in RA and you're on a team without a monk, chances are unless you work well with your team, you're not going to win tons of battles anyways. I'd rather just hope for a monk on my team instead of adding a haphazard healing skill.

dilapodated · Jun 22, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Spell breaker doesn't get casted upon you, so you don't have to be it's target. If(and it's not that big of an if, I know alot of monks who run S.B. to offset E-Denial teams) your target happens to have it on them, your combo goes nowhere.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Spellbreaker

That's the skill in question, and yes, it's a doozey.

Lambentviper · Jun 22, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade

To top it all off, many assassins are inexperienced with the use of their shadow stepping skills to save themselves... They heal for a reason people, they aren't there to get you to the fight faster than the whammo.

death's charge much?

Cryptic Quote · Jun 23, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilapodated

A few things to think about....

One, Horns of the ox is very situational. All it takes is one person to be nearby and the knockdown doesn't go off. With that being your only knockdown it's a bit risky that you won't get your full combo off.

Two, A single enchantment removal renders your build useless Cryptic as GPS requires you to be enchanted.

Three, One word, Aegis, the good ol' Prot monk best friend. If your opponent blocks a single hit, you fail. What makes it worse, GPS now has a longer recharge than before. You miss, you're waiting 20 seconds before you can try again.

Four, Blinding flash,throw dirt, blackout, migrane.. Just a few other "No, your tricks won't work here" that your character has no counter for.

Five, Shield of judgement, now it's you doing the falling.

Six, Spell breaker.. Look mom, my spells didn't go off.

Seven, Bonetti's defense, a VERY common skill for monks to carry. Again, your combo fails.

One - Horns works as long as the target isn't standing DIRECTLY next to someone, I would have to say 90% of the time, your probably not standing DIRECTLY next to your ally.

Two - After the GPS nerf, I swapped wild strike as my offhand, (Shakes an angry fist at ANet, not gonna bitch, just gonna have to change things a bit...)

Three - Again, swapped out GPS, also, if my combo fails, i skimper away, rest, get my nrg up, heal, and go back at it, IM NOT TRYING TO TANK :-P

Four - Same as Three, this is an Ambush build

Five - I don't exactly think that skill is used too too often for it to make me worry, but if it is, i fell down, excuse my whilst i skimper away, recharge, heal, and try again.

Six - Spell breaker, laugh, I bring ONE targeted spell, which is the SECONDARY NUKE, not the primary nuke bed of coals, so the monk is STILL going to get KD'ed, set on fire, and eat a rather nasty combo, GG :-D

Seven - Bonnittis... hrmm... Seems like I can STILL nuke that monk, meaning if that monk dosn't move, that monks gonna be in pain, if the monk is moving, the monk's not healing, so seems like I still am having a good effect on the battle, works for me.

EIGHT - THIS IS AN AMBUSH BUILD, its why its so teleport heavy, if i catch you off guard, focusing on somthing else, casting a large spell, your screwed, plain and simple!

Bloodied Blade · Jun 23, 2006, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryptic Quote

Valid Point, but on the AI note, one thing the AI is programmed to do IS to go after either squishy targets, or targets with high DP. When an assassin rushes in and draws all the aggro, they get in trouble 70% of the time(rough est). So by having nuke skillz in PvE to scramble the other mobs besides your main target turns into a serious advantage for an assassin... And as far as the balance issue, yes they were balanced into the game, just like every other class, one of the key factors of this game is the fact you HAVE to play your role to be 100% effective... An assassin taking way to many hits = an assassin not doing their job... don't blame ANet, the assassins are fun, but extremly complex to play, hence they are like a mesmer, not for everyone, but in the right hands can be an EXTREMLY valuable asset to alot of different builds. And as far as healing goes w/shadow steps, yes they heal for a reason, but its for more then just survival, if you drop your target w/assassins promise, all your skillz = recharged, and hrm, deaths charge heals u as u teleport to your next target, a good sin isn't taking alot of damage, and that heal sets you up to murder your next target, part of the reason assassins are failing right now so miserably is because people arn't thinking outside of the box with them... they are thinking straight forward, do damage do damage do damage. An assassin is more of a disabling/ambush fighter, you have to really go in with a gameplan in order for them to work... and alot of the assassin's skillz are DESIGNED WITH THE INTENTION OF MULTIPUL PLAYSTYLES... They arn't a straight forward melee character, and any1 who tells you that is lying... Why else would they have spells, hex's, attack combo's, enchantments, and shadowsteps? They are ment to be diverse, and over time people will realize what they are ment to do... untill then sadly alot of people wont credit ANet, who in my opinion did a good job w/making the assassin a VERY sacry oppenent... or a very valuable ally... I'm out!

Ah, you kinda half got what I was saying and half missed it completely. I agree with 100% of what you are saying about assassins. I don't believe that it is Anet's fault, just that what Anet has done to balance them is throwing people off. It's always the player that makes the difference in the character, I just feel that Anet made it harder than neccessary for most to play an assassin effectively. I would hate having another straight-forward melee character where I hit the spacebar and do something else while my team kills everything. I agree that assasssins *can* be a very valuable asset to any team, it's just that many that I see in-game are not. The forums make up a very small percentage of the community, and though we attempt to "enlighten" anyone who cares to listen, the community at large is still rather unaware of the potential of the assassin. As for assassins carrying nukes, I would think something like Balthazar's Aura or Symbol of Wrath would be nice to have with you (ok, Balthazar's Aura may be stretching it a little...) so that you scatter things around *you* without changing the patterns that most of the mob is already following. I'm not sure what your playstyle is, but I exploit the patterns that mobs rely on for my survival. It seems that you rely on throwing those patterns into disarray and taking advantage of the confusion that results to slaughter anything you wish.
I only partly agree that the assassin was designed for multiple playstyles, as you have to still take into account the obvious ones that are often impossible or vary difficult to play: The tank and the high-energy using playstyles (like the meteor shower nukers). To an extent, all playstyles are possible on an assassin. It's a lot like playing a mesmer, it takes a lot of thought and practice, but anything is possible.

Bloodied Blade · Jun 23, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilapodated

A few things to think about....

One, Horns of the ox is very situational. All it takes is one person to be nearby and the knockdown doesn't go off. With that being your only knockdown it's a bit risky that you won't get your full combo off.

Two, A single enchantment removal renders your build useless Cryptic as GPS requires you to be enchanted.

Three, One word, Aegis, the good ol' Prot monk best friend. If your opponent blocks a single hit, you fail. What makes it worse, GPS now has a longer recharge than before. You miss, you're waiting 20 seconds before you can try again.

Four, Blinding flash,throw dirt, blackout, migrane.. Just a few other "No, your tricks won't work here" that your character has no counter for.

Five, Shield of judgement, now it's you doing the falling.

Six, Spell breaker.. Look mom, my spells didn't go off.

Seven, Bonetti's defense, a VERY common skill for monks to carry. Again, your combo fails.

It's a fun build idea, but unfortunately it's FAR to situational to be considered pvp material. It needs A LOT of work before it's considered fight ready. Keep working on it.

My advice, switch over to skills that cannot be blocked or evaded. Deadly arts has dancing daggers and entangling asp, neither of which can be blocked, evaded, effected by blind, nor will they trigger shield of judgement, but they will still be countered by spell breaker.

One: I can count on one hand the times that horns of the ox has not knocked down a target in pvp.

Two: Most people don't remove enchantments from assassins, it's generally reserved for Monk energy management removal.

Three: Again, I can count on 1 hand the number of people OUTSIDE OF HOH that I have seen running Aegis.

Four: Blackout and Migrane are usually on mesmer builds reserved for KILLING THE MONK. Blinding Flash is an extreme rarity (15 energy cost, most people will just bring an extra damage skill) outside of hoh, Throw Dirt lasts something like 7-10 seconds at most (maybe 11 with 16 expertise).

Five: SoJ is almost never used in RA or TA, i've seen it 2 times.

Six: Spellbreaker is yet another of those that you never see OUTSIDE OF HOH.

Seven: No, it's not a "very common skill". The only monk builds that ever use it are 55 mo/w and the premade mo/w protection monk. It also needs adrenaline to activate.

I'm getting the feeling that you do waaay more hoh than RA or TA... That and that you also do not play a monk either at all or very often in pvp.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 26, 2006, 07:08 AM // 07:08

I would switch AoD for return, the cripple is a worthy sac for the element of surprise. Personally this build is muy lovey considering I got my GW career started as a godly nuker ^^ and now that I fell in love with the sin i can combine both my professions. Now I just gotta make a sin MM BWAAHAAHAHAHAHA.

Spura · Jun 26, 2006, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryptic Quote

So by having nuke skillz in PvE to scramble the other mobs besides your main target turns into a serious advantage for an assassin...

By far best one to use is Mark of pain. That thing scatters while you beat up that one target.

Ruhern · Jun 26, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24

I actually tried out this build in RA. Fun when it worked, but it didn't work most of the time. When you hit a squishy they usually start running. So BEFORE you knock them down, while you are casting Bed of Coals they are usually running. By the time you catch up to them after casting BoC they are usually outside the radius of the spell. And trying to cast Return affectively is a pain in the rear.

The other downside is that you lack the focused damage power that most assassin builds have. Once your trick is played it's easily predictable.

However, the upside is that you don't rely only on melee. You've got a couple of spells that do great damage to stationary targets. Some people are stupid and they sit there and take it (especially with BoC, the animation for this spell is so small that some people miss it... not the case for BoF which is this bright orange circle on your character which is hard to miss). The spells also work great against spirit spammers and protecting your monk/casters from warriors (they may run while taking AoE damage).

So as others have said, this build isn't the greatest in PvP, but can work well in different situations which makes it fun once in awhile.

Cryptic Quote · Jun 26, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruhern

I actually tried out this build in RA. Fun when it worked, but it didn't work most of the time. When you hit a squishy they usually start running. So BEFORE you knock them down, while you are casting Bed of Coals they are usually running. By the time you catch up to them after casting BoC they are usually outside the radius of the spell. And trying to cast Return affectively is a pain in the rear.

The other downside is that you lack the focused damage power that most assassin builds have. Once your trick is played it's easily predictable.

However, the upside is that you don't rely only on melee. You've got a couple of spells that do great damage to stationary targets. Some people are stupid and they sit there and take it (especially with BoC, the animation for this spell is so small that some people miss it... not the case for BoF which is this bright orange circle on your character which is hard to miss). The spells also work great against spirit spammers and protecting your monk/casters from warriors (they may run while taking AoE damage).

So as others have said, this build isn't the greatest in PvP, but can work well in different situations which makes it fun once in awhile.

RA is not where this build will excell... I run this build mostly for alliance battles, the AoE murders the guardian NPC's, and when your group is running from point to point, if you run into a defensive group, which will tend to stand and try to hold ground, you can plow over the casters really quick, because they are trying to hold their ground(AoE = Death to still groups). Also, random arena's wont work well for this build because it is a build where u want to hit targets that arn't paying attention, so being on a team w/some coordnation helps, because u can let your teammates draw the attention, knowing that you are about to pop up and murder whoever they are boxing with. BTW, every1 who has posted a reply to this build has been a big help, I have made a few refinments, and also learned where the weaknesses and stregths are in this build. If you work on this build, and find out where it works and where it dosn't, it becomes quite lethal :-D. GL out there all you sins, murder some sheet

Nickelocene · Jun 26, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Very interesting build. I like the idea of knock-down and set-on-fire. But, similar to one of the post here, Horns of the Ox can only knock down ONE foe, if it succeeds. So the rest of the mob are still standing. Once you cast BOC, they will scatter and the only one on the floor will be set on fire. How can you make damage to a whole group?
And the whole build seems to be a little stretch on your energy, unless you can make critical hit every strike.

Bloodied Blade · Jun 27, 2006, 03:26 AM // 03:26

HotO may only knock down one foe, but the 1 foe that it knocks down is dead a few seconds later... That's kinda the point of it.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 27, 2006, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Sins have never been good at mass destruction and likely never will eb, they are made for one target at a time kiklls, and sure you can find a more effective build than this, but will you have as much fun?

Cryptic Quote · Jun 27, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickelocene

Very interesting build. I like the idea of knock-down and set-on-fire. But, similar to one of the post here, Horns of the Ox can only knock down ONE foe, if it succeeds. So the rest of the mob are still standing. Once you cast BOC, they will scatter and the only one on the floor will be set on fire. How can you make damage to a whole group?
And the whole build seems to be a little stretch on your energy, unless you can make critical hit every strike.

Ez answer, 2 parts

This builds isn't for mass murder, its for mass confusion and targeted murder(that knocked down foe is dead, plain and simple, he got a fiery assassination

)

On the note of energy maintainence, 13 criticals, and 13 dagger mastery makes it so on critical i get 3 energy, and i critical i would say 1 in 3 strikes, also i wear 1/2 shrouded armor....soo lets do some examiniation

Conjur flame -10 NRG
Lotus strike +7 NRG
wild strike -5 NRG
BoC -15 NRG(thats the part that hurtz)
Horns of the Ox -5 NRG(might be 10, but im pretty shur its 5)
Also, there is a good chance at least one of those attacks hit critical +3

So in one combo you lose 25 NRG, my sin has a bit over 30 because of armor, but here is the secret, usually, your target is sitting on fire for a split second, KEEP ATTACKING, land 1 or 2 criticals, plus energy recharge you should be up over 20 before your combo is ready for the next target

and you also ensure you finish your first target. I honestly have NEVER had energy problems with this build, and I'm able to toss breath of fire here and there for good measure(Catching a boss w/both breath of fire, and BoC, and KD'ing im it, which mind you, takes timing and a bit of luck, is absolutly HALARIOUS

)

Also if your target dies and your energy is low but your health is high, go help your warrior kill somone, you can get your energy up rather quickly with the critical strikes your popping off